The Tourist design proposal

[SlamBamActionman]

The Tourist thread on the Discord has gotten a lot of positive feedback, so here's the design proposal for it.

The thread isn't super long (yet) so I recommend that you read through it for some suggestions that have already been discussed. Link here

[DrMelon]

I love the idea; I think it adds a bit of mid-round fun, without being over the top. I'm already having fun thinking about implementation details - like could I find a way to make the camera take an actual small photograph the Tourist could carry around? That's besides the point, but it's nice to have an idea big enough to have fun thinking about implementing.

[SlamBamActionman]

I want to point out that this role is easy to playtest before the code is implemented, as everything but the camera can pretty much be achieved by an admin with relatively little effort. Just spawn in an basic graytider without ID in a maintenance station airlock, ahelp-chat them their objectives, and then see how they perform.

[metalgearsloth]

How is a tourist different from a passenger.

[HoidC]

How is a tourist different from a passenger.

in the doc it says has objectives and exposes items to being used that may be risky/objectives which is good for the game because it helps the round flow by providing opportunities which is kind of a lacking thing rn with the turtling people do around those

[metalgearsloth]

Half the objectives are antag activities via breaking into a secure area or flashing people.

[CrigCrag]

Half the objectives are antag activities via breaking into a secure area or flashing people.

this is a social game where you can ask for stuff

[metalgearsloth]

Half the objectives are antag activities via breaking into a secure area or flashing people.

this is a social game where you can ask for stuff

People get banned / killed for breaking into secure areas, this is an antag role.

[CrigCrag]

Half the objectives are antag activities via breaking into a secure area or flashing people.

this is a social game where you can ask for stuff

People get banned / killed for breaking into secure areas, this is an antag role.

you dont have to break into secure areas without permission (see: this is a social game where you can ask for stuff)

[HoidC]

Half the objectives are antag activities via breaking into a secure area or flashing people.

this is a social game where you can ask for stuff

People get banned / killed for breaking into secure areas, this is an antag role.

it both says in the doc that the point of the role is to ask to be let into places (thus creating opportunities without specific antaggery) and that this role is not an antagonist, thus should not be breaking into secure areas

[metalgearsloth]

Half the objectives are antag activities via breaking into a secure area or flashing people.

this is a social game where you can ask for stuff

People get banned / killed for breaking into secure areas, this is an antag role.

it both says in the doc that the point of the role is to ask to be let into places (thus creating opportunities without specific antaggery) and that this role is not an antagonist, thus should not be breaking into secure areas

Just because a role says it's not an antagonist does not make it an antagonist.

A traitor can also ask to get into a secure area, letting them in still means it's against the rules.

Same with giving away high-value items (regardless of whether it's temporary, still against the rules).

[HoidC]

Half the objectives are antag activities via breaking into a secure area or flashing people.

this is a social game where you can ask for stuff

People get banned / killed for breaking into secure areas, this is an antag role.

it both says in the doc that the point of the role is to ask to be let into places (thus creating opportunities without specific antaggery) and that this role is not an antagonist, thus should not be breaking into secure areas

Just because a role says it's not an antagonist does not make it an antagonist.

A traitor can also ask to get into a secure area, letting them in still means it's against the rules.

Same with giving away high-value items (regardless of whether it's temporary, still against the rules).

what part of the rules are you referring to? is it the willingly cooperating with antagonists part because idk where else it would clash

[SlamBamActionman]

Half the objectives are antag activities via breaking into a secure area or flashing people.

this is a social game where you can ask for stuff

People get banned / killed for breaking into secure areas, this is an antag role.

I might have not been thorough enough when explaining the design goals of the objectives are meant to fulfill, so here goes:

First off, the Tourist's objectives are all designed to not be a direct detriment to the station. Looking at other antags, their objectives strongly encourage sabotage and subterfuge as their goal involves harming the station by depriving it of some vital item/resource. All the Tourist's objectives are instead milestones; once they're green they're green, meaning a Tourist has no incentive to cause harm to the station. Knowing this, it opens up an avenue that is often very rarely available for objective-based roles; just asking. Hey HoP, can I take a look in the Bridge? Hey Cap, nice sword! Can I hold it for a sec?

Now that's the ideal scenario, where you get some nice roleplay and everyone has a good time. And I think that is going to be common; by asking, you are putting control into the hands of the one you're asking, making it much safer for that person to do the things above.

But! I assume you are more concerned with times when there's pushback to the objectives. What if the Captain says no? Or HoP won't let you into Bridge? This might indeed incur the Tourist's wrath encourage some "graytide" behavior where a Tourist hacks into the Bridge or pilfers the sword off Cap's body in the medbay. But then what? Here we circle back to that you have no incentive to cause any further disruption as a Tourist; you have no reason not to hand back the sword, or to just leave the Bridge.

Is breaking into the Bridge or flashing someone suddenly something that will get you in trouble with Sec? Yes! And, just like normal crew, if you are found doing these things you will get thrown in jail. But that risk then becomes your punishment for failing to utilize your biggest strength as a Tourist: just asking.

And because there was more added as I was writing this...

Just because a role says it's not an antagonist does not make it an antagonist.

A traitor can also ask to get into a secure area, letting them in still means it's against the rules.

Same with giving away high-value items (regardless of whether it's temporary, still against the rules).

Afaik, there is no server rule nor space law that prohibits Command from making exceptions to who can enter a secure area. Heck, during Zombie or Nukie rounds you'll have Captains invite you into bridge to arm up.

Sure, maybe the Nuke disk shouldn't be a Tourist objective since that's one of the few "do not let go of this under any circumstances" items in the game. But Captain's hat? He can let the Tourist touch it a bit and then have it handed back.

[SlamBamActionman]

And to answer the first question, what makes the Tourist different to a Passenger?

Mainly the knowledge the Crew posseses that the Tourist has objectives. Nothing is stopping a Passenger from deciding that they are gonna want to stand in the Bridge for a few seconds, pet Ian and ask the chef for a Tiramisu. But why would anyone oblige them? When presenting yourself as a Tourist, crew will know you are trying to complete some innocent objectives like that, and are encouraged to help you achieve it because helping people feels nice - even if it means briefly exposing the station by escorting a non-Command into Bridge or letting them get close to Ian. (As a midround role, the Tourist also can't be Syndie/Thief either)

[metalgearsloth]

At the end of the day this needs admin approval as any other role especially considering the impact it will have as written.

[SlamBamActionman]

Oh and to address the extreme example where Captain absolutely does not want to let you touch his sword, and you decide to beat him to death and take it.

What? No? Just because you have an objective does not mean you get to murderbone. The Paramed doesn't get to kill the CMO to take their crew monitor. If you fail to persuade or get caught trying to sneak your way where you shouldn't be, that's you failing. It's not an excuse to start swinging your toolbox around, exactly the same as any other crew.

[deathride58]

Honestly the hold objectives in particular seem a bit gamey (it's just putting your hands on an object and you suddenly no longer need to care at all about it). An objective to instead take photographs of specific objects would probably work a lot better, on top of being far more thematic. Tourists in the real world usually don't ask if they can touch/hold high-value objects, as the locals of tourist-heavy places would usually rather not grant a request of that kind, but are usually okay with letting tourists at least see them.

Ditto for the objective to step foot into specific areas. Photographing the area (taking a photo while within line of sight of the beacon associated with the objective) would probably make a lot more sense from a roleplay standpoint. Again, tourists in the real world usually aren't allowed in to high-security areas, but are often allowed to at least see them.

Moving both of those objectives to be based around photography would also have far more interesting gameplay implications. Notably, antags would need to put a little more effort into their LARP if they wanna claim to be a tourist as a cover story, and they'll need to actually put up a fight if they wanna get their hands on an item/get into an area (as the LARP only gives them reason to see the area/item). Additionally, the tourist themself would have far less reason to be aggressive in order to complete their objectives (the current proposed hold/enter objectives encourage self-antagging more than they do roleplay, as crew members probably won't be willing to just hand things over or let a random fishy visitor waltz into a high-security area. Again, that reflects tourism in the real world)

[SlamBamActionman]

Personally I do not mind the objectives being a bit gamey if they invite interesting gameplay consequences. The Tourist should cause some uncomfortable moments of "Hrrm, he better not be lying now" for the person they are asking; this is offset by the short duration to complete the objective. Had it been something like "convince the Captain to give away his sword" or "be alone in the Bridge", well, good luck making him comfortable with that.

I would be hesitant to compare the Tourist with real-life tourist trap visitors. You are not going to be in a group squeezing your way through a famous monument, but a single individual interacting directly with the people responsible. If the Tourist's objectives can be completed without interacting with people, then I would consider the role failing its purpose.

As mentioned in a previous comment, I think people will be overall quite willing to help Tourists with their objectives. With additional things such as the Visitor "job" the HoP can provide and ability to control the visit by escorting them imo it becomes more likely.

[LankLTE]

Thank you for the design document. After some discussion with admins & maintainers, we've agreed on some changes that should be made to the current implementation:
The "visit" and "hold" objectives should be redone to something more general- objectives such as "photograph a member of a specific department" or "take a photograph of a specific head." As is they encourage antagonistic activity should the crew refuse to cooperate, which the possibility of impersonation makes the seemingly correct choice.
The Tourist should spawn with a passport that can't be copied (via agent ID) or edited (with a cybersun pen), for them to collect stamps on for the "stamp collecting" objective. This would similarly prevent crew from refusing to cooperate under impersonation both via preventing the cybersun pen from editing their stamped paper & uniquely identifying the user as a tourist.
The Tourists' camera shouldn't stun upon flashing a target. Simply blinding (if they aren't wearing flash protection) is enough.

[SlamBamActionman]

Thank you (and the rest of the team!) for taking the time to review and respond to the proposal. I think that the suggested change to objectives and camera make sense, especially with the upcoming Rev 2.0 which removes flashes from Revs altogether.

However there is this part I am concerned about:

The Tourist should spawn with a passport that can't be copied (via agent ID) or edited (with a cybersun pen), for them to collect stamps on for the "stamp collecting" objective. This would similarly prevent crew from refusing to cooperate under impersonation both via preventing the cybersun pen from editing their stamped paper & uniquely identifying the user as a tourist.

The proposed changes are meant to reduce the likelihood of the crew refusing cooperate, which I think is fair and good reasoning, but providing a unique item that makes the Tourist guaranteed to be verifiable is so strong in the favor of crew that any other variable becomes irrelevant. Essentially it invalidates the first suggested change: If I can use the passport to verify that I am a Tourist, and thus prove with certainty that I am not an antag, it doesn't matter how risky my objectives are. Command can feel entirely safe in granting me access.

By making the Tourist verifiable it also completely removes its use as a cover tool for other antags, one of the core design goals of its implementation. Nukies, Terminators, and Traitors can no longer utilize the Tourist role in any effective degree, as any request will be immediately met with "Show me the passport". The first suggested change already fixes what the passport is purported to solve; by making the requests tame enough that crew can feel safe accepting even if the Tourist is an antag in disguise.

[Emisse]

if an antag wants to pretend to be a tourist they can just beat up the tourist and take the passport

[SlamBamActionman]

I think that overlooks the rarity of a mid-round role and, due to lacking an ID/PDA that must be supplied by HoP, once a legit Tourist has arrived they will likely be given more attention by crew and Command. At that point just disguise as a Paramed.

[LordEclipse]

Thank you (and the rest of the team!) for taking the time to review and respond to the proposal. I think that the suggested change to objectives and camera make sense, especially with the upcoming Rev 2.0 which removes flashes from Revs altogether.

However there is this part I am concerned about:

The Tourist should spawn with a passport that can't be copied (via agent ID) or edited (with a cybersun pen), for them to collect stamps on for the "stamp collecting" objective. This would similarly prevent crew from refusing to cooperate under impersonation both via preventing the cybersun pen from editing their stamped paper & uniquely identifying the user as a tourist.

The proposed changes are meant to reduce the likelihood of the crew refusing cooperate, which I think is fair and good reasoning, but providing a unique item that makes the Tourist guaranteed to be verifiable is so strong in the favor of crew that any other variable becomes irrelevant. Essentially it invalidates the first suggested change: If I can use the passport to verify that I am a Tourist, and thus prove with certainty that I am not an antag, it doesn't matter how risky my objectives are. Command can feel entirely safe in granting me access.

By making the Tourist verifiable it also completely removes its use as a cover tool for other antags, one of the core design goals of its implementation. Nukies, Terminators, and Traitors can no longer utilize the Tourist role in any effective degree, as any request will be immediately met with "Show me the passport". The first suggested change already fixes what the passport is purported to solve; by making the requests tame enough that crew can feel safe accepting even if the Tourist is an antag in disguise.

Command shouldn't be granting a tourist access beyond rudimentary public access. Its why they would get a "passport" but not an ID by default, they are visitors of no real importance to the functioning of the station or NT at large.

[SlamBamActionman]

Command shouldn't be granting a tourist access beyond rudimentary public access. Its why they would get a "passport" but not an ID by default, they are visitors of no real importance to the functioning of the station or NT at large.

No, they shouldn't; I agree that Hold/Visit objectives should be changed. My point is that with a passport (or other identifiable object), there is very little ambiguity whether the Tourist visiting your station is a good guy or not. Which goes against one of the main reasons the role was proposed; making stealth antag plays more resilient to metagaming.

Making the Tourist unverifiable was the reason why the Travel Camera was made an Uplink item and maints loot in the proposal.

[HoidC]

If there is too much uncertainty in the existence of a Tourist, or really any possible role, people will end up ignoring it or hold it under far more scrutiny, there needs to be level of the Tourist being verifiable in order for crew to not just mistrust them outright. The fact that, for instance stamped paper can be edited is enough to throw its authenticity out the window for a lot of people to the point the likely don't use paper outside of faxes.

wasn’t a PR implemented that prevents stamped paper from being edited

[SlamBamActionman]

If there is too much uncertainty in the existence of a Tourist, or really any possible role, people will end up ignoring it or hold it under far more scrutiny, there needs to be level of the Tourist being verifiable in order for crew to not just mistrust them outright. The fact that, for instance stamped paper can be edited is enough to throw its authenticity out the window for a lot of people to the point the likely don't use paper outside of faxes.

wasn’t a PR implemented that prevents stamped paper from being edited

From the way earlier comments were phrased it sounds like the CyberSun pen can edit stamped paper. Which I did not know! Gonna try this next time I get Thief antag...

[LordEclipse]

If there is too much uncertainty in the existence of a Tourist, or really any possible role, people will end up ignoring it or hold it under far more scrutiny, there needs to be level of the Tourist being verifiable in order for crew to not just mistrust them outright. The fact that, for instance stamped paper can be edited is enough to throw its authenticity out the window for a lot of people to the point the likely don't use paper outside of faxes.

wasn’t a PR implemented that prevents stamped paper from being edited

cybersun pen and centcom pen can edit stamped paper

[HoidC]

If there is too much uncertainty in the existence of a Tourist, or really any possible role, people will end up ignoring it or hold it under far more scrutiny, there needs to be level of the Tourist being verifiable in order for crew to not just mistrust them outright. The fact that, for instance stamped paper can be edited is enough to throw its authenticity out the window for a lot of people to the point the likely don't use paper outside of faxes.

wasn’t a PR implemented that prevents stamped paper from being edited

cybersun pen and centcom pen can edit stamped paper

why would people automatically be assuming that the valid pen is in play as soon as paperwork comes out

does this mean there’s no point in having official documents

it’s such a niche purpose if your point is that people will automatically assume it I don’t think many people even know it does that because nobody does it

[SlamBamActionman]

In the interest of getting a proper feel for how it'd be to play Tourist and how players would react, I have been doing "playtests" over the past few days where I've simulated Tourist gameplay on live Wizden servers.

The short version is that I've joined servers midround (approx >15 minutes), thrown away my ID, PDA and headset, and then played the round as if I had Tourist objectives. This methodology hasn't been perfect; I haven't had access to a real camera item, I had to decide my objectives myself (pre-round), and since there's no actual Tourist role yet it should have been harder to convince people I was doing things innocently. It's also by no means comprehensive, especially since I'm coming at this from the perspective of "knowing" how the role should be played.

Still, I think there are some conclusions that can be drawn. I've compiled all my rounds in the drop-down at the bottom of this comment if you want to see the data for yourself.

Objectives

The objectives are at the heart of the Tourist, and is mostly what makes them unique from a normal Passenger. My observerations are as follow:

• Getting into secure areas, such as Bridge, Vault and Armory, is not a good objective. This is due to two reason. Only very limited personnel can let you in, meaning you need to both convince the correct person and find them at a time they are available. Then there's also the general danger of letting someone into those areas. Too difficult, not very fun.
• On the contrary, department visits are much easier to pull off. Some departments can be simple visits in general (Security, Engineering), while others are better as specific sub-areas in departments (Morgue, Cargo Bay, Robotics). These have multiple employees who can help you, and stamps from Command help getting you where you need to go.
• Getting stamps on paper was not difficult. The first one can get some slight hesitation, however once you have one people will be happy to give out more. Note that while the Cybersun pen exist, a paper with multiple stamps becomes less believable if it were to be rewritten. Stamps should also be limited to jobs, to avoid Approve/Denied stamps which are a bit too easy to get. 6 stamps seemed decent but it could be shifted based on population.
• Hold objectives were too hard to achieve. People don't want to hand over valuable items, which makes sense. However, an alternative was to "photograph" someone holding an item, which was a lot more palatable. Should probably be tied to a specific job/ID access holding the item.
• Eating food should only be available if there's a Chef onboard. Otherwise it's too hard to get access to kitchen supplies.
• Since I didn't have a camera, I had to use emotes to pretend. This still ended up being very enjoyable, and a lot of crew enjoyed posing for photos if asked. While I do not think the camera should be involved in every objective, it's definitely a big plus in getting access in places. "Can I take a photo of X?" makes for a great excuse to visit places.

Crew Reception

One concern raised was the risk of crew and Command not assisting the Tourist with their objectives due to suspecting them of being an antag in disguise. I barely experienced this in any of my rounds playing to the point where I found it a non-issue. While there was some paranoia and hesitation at times (one detective even said post-game he was so paranoid I was another Terminator), crew complied with my requests to visit their departments or do a certain activities. HoP gave out ID & PDA without any issue and sometimes even marked my job as "Visitor" without me even asking, and generally coming up with any RP reason to visit a place was enough to get access. Sometimes a form had to be filled out and stamped but that was hardly a difficult barrier to get over.

Again, during these tests I had nothing that identified me as a non-antag. Despite this I got to enter Security, see the Tesla up close, and get 1-on-1 conversations with heads and other important crew. Had I been an antag these opportunities wouldn't have been as good as stealthing since crew was often very aware of my presence, but I could not find anything that corroborated the notion that crew would flat out deny my requests due to antag suspicion.

Tourist Round Summaries

Round 1
Salamander ~25 players, Traitors
Tourist look: Stereotypical hawaiian-clothes tourist
Objectives:

• None this round since I was just trying out the concept. Was let into Security, Cargo Shuttle, Morgue, Tech Vault and was about to go spacewalking in Engineering before I had to SSD. Ate a Steak from a chef who enjoyed RPing serving me, and HoS gave me a fingerprint sheet as a gift.

Round 2 (4/4 objectives)
Salamander ~40 players, Traitors
Tourist look: Old Sec veteran in a wheelchair
Objectives:

• Drink a fancy drink in bar (Success)
• Visit Security (Success)
• Inspect Captain's sword (sorta Success)
• Get drunk in bar (Success)
  Notes:
  Captain would not let my hold the sword, but was happy to show it in their own hands)

Round 3 ("0"/2)
Salamander ~40 players, Revolutionaries
Tourist look: British street rat who says "bruv" a lot
Objectives:

• Visit Cargo Shuttle (Failure)
• Visit Engineering (Failure)
  Notes:
  This one I failed, but intentionally. Mime stole my shoes early on, so I decided to focus on breaking into their room and getting them back. Then revolution happened, which I had much more fun helping. Always remember objectives are only suggestions, and if the round can be made more fun otherwise then do that!

Round 4 (3/3)
Salamander ~50 players, Nuclear Ops
Tourist look: Gladiator obsessed with warriors, screaming "HUTTAH!" a lot
Objectives:

• Get [x] stamps (Got 5, but we ended up being low on stamp-holding roles)
• Visit Morgue (Success)
• Visit Bridge (Success)
  Notes:
  I got 5 stamps total, from different Heads. The most interesting was probably the CMO- they initially declined, as I pitched the stamp as a way to document they were a proper warrior and they weren't interested in war. When I turned it around that medics fight the most important war of all, while also being pacifists, I convinced them that they were indeed fit to stamp. I also got RD by calling him Master Weaponsmith, that stamp went quick. I think this goes to show that the Tourist does need some RP skills, especially when dealing with people who initially refuse.

Round 5 (3/3)
Miros ~40 players, Traitors
Tourist look: Stereotypical tourist
Objectives:

• Get 5 stamps (Success, got 8)
• Visit Engineering (Success)
• Visit Bridge (Success)
  Notes:
  Got to see the Tesla up close thanks to a very enthusiastic Engineer. I got Captain's stamp semi-illegally, as it was given to me after being stolen from his office.

Round 6 (5/5)
Lizard ~80 players, Revolutionaries
Tourist look: Stereotypical tourist
Objectives:

• Get 6 stamps (Success)
• Visit Engineering (Success)
• Eat a Cheeseburger (Success)
• Visit Bridge (Success)
• Get a hug from Captain (Success)
  Notes:
  Hardest part was getting the cheeseburger.

Round 7 (4/5)
Lizard ~80 players, Nuclear Ops
Tourist look: Old Sec veteran
Objectives:

• Visit Security (Success)
• Drink Grog in Bar (Success)
• Take a photo of Captain holding their sword (Success)
• Photograph the Quartermaster (Success)
• Drink more Grog (Failure)
  Notes:
  Died to a self-antag disposals trap before I could do my last objective. I think this round solidified taking photos as the best way to interact with Hold objectives, as the Captain was very hesitant to help until he understood he wouldn't have to let go of his sword.

Round 8 (2/4)
Leviathan ~50 players, Nuclear Ops
Tourist look: Stereotypical tourist
Objectives:

• Get 6 stamps (Failure, 4/6)
• Visit Morgue (Success)
• Eat a Cheeseburger (Failure)
• Get drunk in bar (Success)
  Notes:
  This rounded ended quite soon after I joined (around 25-minutes in) due to Nukies. Could've been full greentext had I got 10 more minutes.

Round 9 (3/4)
Leviathan ~50 players, Traitors
Tourist look: British street rat who says "bruv" a lot
Objectives:

• Get 6 stamps (Success)
• Visit Science (Success)
• Visit Vault (Failure)
• Get drunk in bar (Success)
  Notes:
  I think this round only reinforced that secure location objectives like Vault just don't work.

Closing thoughts

I think these tests go a long way to show that, at the very least, verifiable identification for the Tourist is not necessary. My issue with fulfilling most objectives was due to a lack of time on the part of the personnel involved rather than any suspicion from crew. Post-round OOC players often expressed positive sentiment to the Tourist role and excitement for it to be added. I ask maintainers to reconsider the passport requirement suggested above, and I will update the design document to reflect these findings. Thanks for reading!

[SlamBamActionman]

I've made a slight change in the Travel Camera's behavior based on feedback:

It now holds 10 charges, has no AoE flash (for balance and also to avoid triggering it accidentally when equipping), no longer trips the target.

Compare this to the Flash Lantern, which has 15 charges, AoE flash, but is also identifiable as contraband upon inspection. Essentially the Travel Camera trades 5 charges for making you not valid, and also serves as a good Tourist impersonation tool.

I've also added the clarification that the Travel Camera can not be used by Head Revs to convert.

[SirChopwood]

Just wanted to add on to the comment about playtesting the role as I also did a few myself and felt very similar responses from crew. Many were very happy to take a moment out of the usual game loop to actually discuss what they're doing and show off their progress. Some hold objectives are certainly still possible, such as when i got the captain to let me hold the bridge fire axe for a moment (though he did back off when i did, presumably hovering over his sword). Again tasks such as visiting specific sub-areas of departments seems to work well and HoPs were often more than happy to facilitate the setup via handing out new IDs/PDAs, even going as far to flavourtext them as Tourist instead of Passenger.

[Boaz1111]

Having playtested it myself, I had great fun, people seemed to enjoy it and trust me, except for CE who burnt my stamp paper even after it already had 4 stamps :(
Salvage gave me a tour of their shuttle, sci gave me a tour, I took a picture of med and it's staff, of HoS in their suit, amongst many other things.

[0x6273]

How would the game know if a location has been visited?

[SlamBamActionman]

How the game know if a location has been visited?

Initially I was thinking it would use the same system as the Ninja bomb objective. However as I have been told that system is slated for being removed/reworked, another option is utilizing station beacons. The particulars haven't been figured out, but off the cuff beacons could have a mapper-set bool that makes them valid targets for visitor objectives? They're marked on the station map too which makes it very clear where to go.

[0x6273]

beacons could have a mapper-set bool that makes them valid targets for visitor objectives?

Beacons can destroyed, which would make the objective impossible even if you replace the beacon.

[SlamBamActionman]

beacons could have a mapper-set bool that makes them valid targets for visitor objectives?

Beacons can destroyed, which would make the objective impossible even if you replace the beacon.

An option would be to have the beacons' locations be set as the target locations upon map initiation, instead of tying the objective to the beacon object itself. Not a huge fan of this though.

But even if we use the beacon objects, them being destroyed and causing impossible objectives is not necessarily a dealbreaker. There already exists objectives within the game that can become impossible or near-impossible. Examples include thief pet objectives being gibbed, and steal objectives being launched into space.

[Boaz1111]

Tourist testing round:
Get head stamps: 7/7
Take a picture of the armoury:Done from the outside of armoury, inside was not allowed, HoS posed
Order food and drink:Ordered ribs and a pan-galactic gargle blaster, got both
Take a picture of crewmember:Done
Get a picture taken of me wearing the CMO hardsuit:Done

[MACMAN2003]

Tourist testing round: Get head stamps: 7/7 Take a picture of the armoury:Done from the outside of armoury, inside was not allowed, HoS posed Order food and drink:Ordered ribs and a pan-galactic gargle blaster, got both Take a picture of crewmember:Done Get a picture taken of me wearing the CMO hardsuit:Done

I was the HOS that round, this test succeeded in putting the RP in MRP

[SlamBamActionman]

I'm glad to see that people are still trying this. I want to start working on implementing the role soon (and I have already made some tentative attempts) but I don't feel comfortable putting in a ton of effort until I know this proposal is accepted.

@ Maintainers What is the proposal missing at the moment for it to be merged?

[rosieposieeee]

this is seriously awesome. the game needs more roleplay-focused things like this to spice it up. really opens the possibility for more crew-aligned roles that have objectives, and more objectives that are entirely roleplay based.

[Fildrance]

• Since I didn't have a camera, I had to use emotes to pretend. This still ended up being very enjoyable, and a lot of crew enjoyed posing for photos if asked. While I do not think the camera should be involved in every objective, it's definitely a big plus in getting access in places. "Can I take a photo of X?" makes for a great excuse to visit places.

i think you are missing some key points:
First - camera IS THE MOST IMPORTANT! what tourists do all the time - they make SELFIES! and all of targets (i think) should be about selfies!

• mom, look! there i am in brig with warden, while he is beating me!
• mom, look! cap gave me a chance to touch his sword!
• mom look! i'm touching gun that makes black hole!

about objectives - best player experience could be achived when you have both easy stuff and hard stuff. Objectives better be
weighted and every tourist better to have 1 hard objective, 3-5 medium, 3-7 easy. Challenge from cap/sec/heads not beliving that you are tourist is good because most of objectives should just be not requiring their attention, so you have enjoyment of completing most of marks. For hard one you should work hard, or tourist gameplay will be boring after 1-2 times playing. or at least its how it feels, and that is very important and missing for now thing - knowledge how will it feel for player and crew after meeting with tourists on daily basis. It feels like it will change view on role A LOT...

And final thing - when cap will let in vault disguised nukie, who will kill him and arm nuke - that would not be disaster, that will be THE most pog thing imo ;)

[SlamBamActionman]

The design doc has been updated to reflect the current state of the game:

1. Removed references to Exterminator
2. Emphasized that objectives should not encourage antagonism; achieving them should be easier with the help of crew, but if the Tourist is refused help they should at worst only have to do petty crime (example of petty vs. major: sneaking into Sci to photograph a Node Analyzer vs. breaking RD's locker to photograph a Hand Teleporter).
3. "Photograph Holding" has been changed to "Photograph Item" due to the above.
4. Clarification on antag interactions
5. Minor word changes, rephrasing and spelling fixes

The Tourist is now more relevant due to the Random Shuttle Event having been added to the game. It fits perfectly into that system and also stands out from the current variations.

[AJCM-git]

Apart from these, the doc seems to have been correctly amended to include staff issues so i think its conceptually fine now.

[SlamBamActionman]

For the record this design doc is still of interest, however photography, which is a strong part of the PR, would require something like #307 to function.

This ghost role could still work without photography (the photo objectives are after all just activating an item x tiles away from a specific object), if devs want the role to be developed in tandem with photography rather than waiting for it.