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| CCG Verifiable Credentials for Education Task Force |
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| [2024-12-02T14:45:11.223Z] <Ildiko_Mazar> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/2024Dec/0000.html | ||
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| [2024-12-02T14:45:59.223Z] <Ildiko_Mazar> Good morning, good afternoon everyone, welcome to today's W3C Verifiable Credentials for Education task force call, on Monday, December the 2nd. Let's get started with the housekeeping items. IP Note: Anyone can participate in these calls. However, all substantive contributions to any Credentials Community Group Work Items must originate from members of the CCG with full IPR agreements signed. You can find the link to this in the meeting invites. You'll need to have a W3C account, that is also something easy to do online. Moving on to call notes. Please note that these meetings are recorded. We have a robot transcriber and we also make audio and video recordings, that are archived and available online. If you want to speak, please raise your hand, or add yourself to the queue by typing “q+” in the chat. And please be brief if you have a question to ask, we want to maximise the time for conversations. Thank you. Now to Introductions & Reintroductions. If we have any new people in the call, or somebody would like to reintroduce themselves, please feel free to take the floor. If nobody wants to take the floor, we can move on to announcements and reminders. Anyone has events or things that happened that people should be aware of, again, please queue yourself up and share the news with us. Now to the main agenda topic, that is basically the continuation of the discussion Kerri started via email and we also had our last meeting about: multilingual credentials and achievement subject areas. | ||
| [2024-12-02T15:50:47.622Z] <Ildiko_Mazar> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T15:56:38.090Z] <Dmitri_Zagidulin> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T15:57:05.915Z] <Anthony_F._Camilleri> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T15:58:31.609Z] <Stuart_Freeman> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T15:59:49.619Z] <Eric_Shepherd> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T15:59:55.516Z] <Vikas_Malhotra> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:00:26.456Z] <Andy_Griebel> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:00:27.366Z] <Alex_Higuera_(DCC)> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:00:45.217Z] <Anthony_F._Camilleri> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:01:05.361Z] <Phil_Barker> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:01:05.822Z] <Simone_Ravaioli> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:01:36.257Z] <Kristen_Franklin,_Digital_Promise_Global> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:01:54.525Z] <Luisa> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:02:24.154Z] <TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com)> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:02:44.549Z] <Transcriber> scribe+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:02:44.549Z] <Transcriber> Meeting: education | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:02:48.629Z] <Christoph_Graf_(switch.ch)> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:02:53.230Z] <Sheela_Kiiskila> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:03:14.758Z] <Keith_Hackett> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:03:20.708Z] <Andres> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:03:32.801Z] <James_Chartrand> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:03:45.079Z] <TallTed_//_Ted_Thibodeau_(he/him)_(OpenLinkSw.com)> just fyi, the transcriber doesn't like anyone whose voice originates outside USA. You'll still be in the audio recording. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:04:06.492Z] <Xavi_Aracil_(1EdTech)> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:05:07.083Z] <Kerri_Lemoie> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:06:12.997Z] <Stuart_Freeman> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:06:19.468Z] <Kerri_Lemoie> Hello Anthony! | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:07:29.009Z] <Anthony_F._Camilleri> Hi Kerri! Long time! | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:07:31.686Z] <Jeff_O_/_HumanOS> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:07:50.088Z] <Kerri_Lemoie> Email thread about multilingual credentials: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-vc-edu/2024Nov/0003.html | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:08:03.473Z] <Kerri_Lemoie> (Apologies for not replying - will follow-up this week) | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:09:13.305Z] <Kaliya_Identity_Woman> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:10:27.627Z] <Kayode_Ezike> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:11:43.604Z] <Ildiko_Mazar> English + 28 other languages, to be precise :-) | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:12:38.469Z] <Phil> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:12:54.394Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: Yeah uh so I just wanted to double check that I understand correctly so you're translating both the contents of the field and the field label. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:13:09.502Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: Got it okay. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:13:15.493Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: Okay got it okay understood. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:13:46.275Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: So it sounds to me that we here at VC Edge you have are dealing with now 3 different um translation or internationalization model this 1. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:14:03.101Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: The uh related 1 that the related field that obvious 3 uses and the VC 2.0 data model approach so that that'll be interesting to juggle. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:14:34.832Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: Doesn't seem to be the case just looking at the code. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:15:04.183Z] <David_Ward> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:15:31.125Z] <Kerri_Lemoie> WOuld you be able to provide a link to an example of a whole credential json-ld that we could look at? | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:15:50.330Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: Carry in the chat um is asking can you paste a link to that Json view into chat so that we can record it. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:15:50.818Z] <Ildiko_Mazar> https://europa.eu/europass/elm-browser/homepage/edc-generic-no-cv_en.html | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:15:51.714Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: Awesome thank you. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:15:55.154Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: And how do we. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:16:01.707Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: How do we get from from this link that you're on right now how do we get to the Json. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:16:10.062Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: Yes how do we get to that. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:16:29.729Z] <Ildiko_Mazar> https://code.europa.eu/qualifications-courses-and-credentials/ELM-support/-/tree/main/credential%20examples/JSON-LD%20Examples%20(ELM%20v3)?ref_type=heads | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:17:00.790Z] <Kaliya_Identity_Woman> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:17:11.229Z] <Phil_Barker> Is there a reason for prefLabel having an array for each label? | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:17:22.814Z] <Kerri_Lemoie> q+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:17:53.664Z] <Phil_Barker> :-) | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:18:05.495Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: Oh yeah sorry um I was just going to say that um I'm just going to spend a little bit of time the reason why I'm not asking any questions I just want to spend a little bit more time. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:18:25.508Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: Reviewing the the Json LD I think overall I need to have a better understanding of uh of elm anyway it's about time that I catch up on it so um I'm gonna take a look um elica would you mind replying to our email thread though um with some information like so others can can have that. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:18:25.670Z] <Anthony_F._Camilleri> with pleasure | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:18:29.473Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: Thank you very much appreciate that. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:18:32.668Z] <Kerri_Lemoie> q- | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:20:26.088Z] <Ildiko_Mazar> https://op.europa.eu/en/web/eu-vocabularies/europasstables | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:20:55.542Z] <Anthony_F._Camilleri> Every one of these lists is published as pure RDF, again translated in 28 languages, fully dereferencable, and SPARQL accessible. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:21:15.859Z] <Andres> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:21:18.155Z] <Dmitri_Zagidulin> thanks Anthony! | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:21:20.833Z] <Kerri_Lemoie> Is English the default language? | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:21:53.018Z] <Dmitri_Zagidulin> (I suspect most of the people on this call will be unfamiliar with plain RDF and tooling (SPARQL etc). we're just slowly getting used to JSON-LD, but few people use the tooling) | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:22:01.619Z] <Kaliya_Identity_Woman> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:25:30.556Z] <Anthony_F._Camilleri> @kerri - officially there is no default language - all 28 versions are authoritative. but typically english is most complete | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:25:30.987Z] <Ildiko_Mazar> @Kerri, the issuer determines the default language of the credential. An EDC (European Digital Credential for Learning) has 1..n available languages and 1..1 primary language. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:26:21.155Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: Thank you and and I guess um. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:26:25.153Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: The labels are English though they are always in English. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:26:28.200Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: I think I said I was curious. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:26:33.700Z] <Kerri_Lemoie> q- | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:27:54.359Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: Yes thank you. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:28:02.309Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: Ask another question about how the system works its kind of unrelated but it is related you probably covered it in another call and I may have missed it. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:28:07.474Z] <Naomi> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:28:08.302Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: Um how does this work with with wallets with like say mobile wallets. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:28:20.840Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: Like independent mobile wallets are they um required to sort of follow the same methodology that you're doing here in the browser with like language and display and such how how is that working with Elm. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:30:07.849Z] <Ildiko_Mazar> https://ec.europa.eu/digital-building-blocks/sites/display/EUDIGITALIDENTITYWALLET/EU+Digital+Identity+Wallet+Home | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:30:10.568Z] <Kaliya_Identity_Woman> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:30:24.728Z] <Ildiko_Mazar> Above is the reference to EUDI Wallet | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:30:34.454Z] <Andres> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:31:23.359Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: Okay that is really interesting to know um you know I bring it up and I want to hug the club for other people have questions is um. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:31:37.069Z] <Alex_Higuera_(DCC)> https://lcw.app/ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:31:42.499Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: Is we have the learner credential wallet at the DCC which is is open source and we have a lot of European members in fact most of the European members or majority anyway and um would like to sort of integrate with what you are all doing maybe I'll just catch up with both of you later and see um how we might be able to do some of that on our end too okay. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:33:11.818Z] <Ildiko_Mazar> q+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:33:25.246Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: I'll I'll just keep uh chatting if you don't mind I have a question for like actually the broad group um on them the mailing the email thread where we've been talking about multilingual credentials um I I believe it was Manu who said hey why don't we just use Bots and let's not worry about how all the different standards are handling um credential handling multilingual credentials um so I was curious as to what people think about this I mean I I I have concerns about that I think it will happen in any way I I'll just say that I I have concerns because you know they're not so readily available they're expensive and such but I was just curious to hear what others think about that approach to multilingual credentials um my thinking is that it probably accommodates. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:33:34.143Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: Us putting the content in and that you know we probably should issue the credentials in the language of the earner um yeah I'm just curious what others think about this. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:33:53.867Z] <Anthony_F._Camilleri> q+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:33:56.787Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: Uh I think I'm next on the Queue yeah so um uh so I think I I agree with you Carrie that I do have concerns about this I don't think that's going to be the default approach to translation internationalization because. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:34:21.117Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: For high value credentials like diplomas or professional certifications the probability that a bot will miss translate is very high issuers will have a lot of incentives to make sure they get the translation exactly right and sign off on. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:34:32.579Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: So my recommendation to issue is would be the value of the field don't Auto. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:34:42.142Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: Translate um but translate once use 1 of these 3 internationalization options and sign off on it. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:34:51.111Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: If anything I could see using Bots to translate the labels of the field but not the content. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:35:05.652Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: Yeah I think I think so too to be traced like it shouldn't shouldn't the actual content of the credential that's expected by the owner of the credential be signed as part of the credential versus translated by an outside source. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:35:47.512Z] <Kristen_Franklin,_Digital_Promise_Global> +1 to Ildiko -- translation is a science and art. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:36:30.524Z] <Kristen_Franklin,_Digital_Promise_Global> (which I think I picked that phrase up from Anthony and/or Ildiko) | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:36:37.899Z] <Kerri_Lemoie> +1 Ildiko | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:36:38.097Z] <Phil_Barker> q+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:37:18.353Z] <Ildiko_Mazar> q- | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:37:30.802Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: I think Anthony or Phil Barker is next. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:38:22.943Z] <Kerri_Lemoie> Good to know, Phil! | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:38:46.077Z] <Phil_Barker> q- | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:38:50.084Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: All right I think uh I'm up next. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:38:50.504Z] <Dmitri_Zagidulin> ack Anth | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:38:50.573Z] <Ildiko_Mazar> Nothing can be autotranslated to Hungarian :-D | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:39:05.090Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: Uh so I I just realized that I think uh it was either early last year or the year before we had uh we had a call here at VC EDU. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:39:19.584Z] <Dmitri_Zagidulin> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/18ppWk_deojNoVirksDF93gABvQOGS4MptTQGhbCtIbs | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:39:34.798Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: Going over the concept of internationalization and localization in general so I want to paste uh I want to paste the link to those slides uh here just in case it might be interesting to people uh now this was before we had examples both from obv 3 or from the European learning model so uh it doesn't go into the details of those it just just discusses uh the plane. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:39:44.590Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: Uh VC 1.1 and 2.0 approach uh but as as I see from um. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:39:58.703Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: Example the next steps there uh our our next to-do steps for ourselves where lots of examples and now that we've got 3 different approaches we'll we'll want to document all 3. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:40:07.153Z] <Transcriber> Dmitri_Zagidulin: And and give guidance to to developers on on how to implement each. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:40:18.487Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: Um that would be an excellent work item for a VC EDU. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:40:18.637Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: I think. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:40:27.036Z] <Ildiko_Mazar> q+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:40:41.047Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: Just a recommendation of the co-chairs to come up with even just 1 or 2 like models that are doing the same things in each different approach so that we could also look at them together and compare and see how we should either develop I don't know libraries or in such to help understand all of this in our applications. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:42:03.262Z] <Ildiko_Mazar> q- | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:42:31.871Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: Um yeah I mean I think we do as 1 is much interoperability as possible the more I do this work the more I realize that there's always going to be like a few ways of things the way things are happening and that possibly we just need to build libraries that will understand those few ways I I think we are headed into a space where it's going to be a while before there's any sort of like you know true. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:42:36.522Z] <Kaliya_Identity_Woman> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:42:39.311Z] <Transcriber> Kerri_Lemoie: I mean everything is like close enough that we can build around it I think as long as we don't keep adding to it you know. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:43:25.127Z] <Kerri_Lemoie> Awesome! We'd love to know about them. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:43:38.470Z] <Anthony_F._Camilleri> Here you go: | ||
| https://dc4euconv.govpart.de/ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:43:47.089Z] <Anthony_F._Camilleri> That's the OpenBadge to ELM converter | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:43:54.074Z] <Anthony_F._Camilleri> Xavi has another cool github link. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:43:57.994Z] <Kerri_Lemoie> :+1: | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:43:58.838Z] <Transcriber> Xavi_Aracil_(1EdTech): Yeah yeah yeah we know thank you we comment that that Workshop in our 1 1 of our Open matches meeting and I think that the link of the of the slide chart is are. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:43:59.189Z] <Transcriber> Xavi_Aracil_(1EdTech): in in. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:44:04.820Z] <Transcriber> Xavi_Aracil_(1EdTech): Running agenda notes and also in the 1 community site so. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:44:07.832Z] <Transcriber> Xavi_Aracil_(1EdTech): So yeah it's publicly available. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:44:21.623Z] <Kerri_Lemoie> Do you have the link Xavi? | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:44:25.017Z] <Transcriber> Xavi_Aracil_(1EdTech): So for those of you I work on yeah the idea was to. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:44:35.036Z] <Kaliya_Identity_Woman> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:44:37.146Z] <Transcriber> Xavi_Aracil_(1EdTech): Uh both types of clients are you uh via the type attribute of the Json LD credentials so. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:44:51.192Z] <Ildiko_Mazar> I think it's this URL: https://github.com/1EdTech/dc-bootcamp/tree/main - correct me if I'm wrong, @Xavi | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:44:58.431Z] <Transcriber> Xavi_Aracil_(1EdTech): So the same payload contained both representations of the same data 1 in no match following the open batch for a specification on the other following the EDC Japan digital credential specification we found some Collision points that we are trying to sort out. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:45:03.379Z] <Transcriber> Xavi_Aracil_(1EdTech): Uh yes yes illegal it's it's the. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:45:08.885Z] <Kerri_Lemoie> :+1: | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:45:11.984Z] <Transcriber> Xavi_Aracil_(1EdTech): That link in the chat points to the to the kind of repository with the with the with an example payload so. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:45:26.607Z] <Transcriber> Xavi_Aracil_(1EdTech): So yeah and and any feedback can help and work on continue working on that it's encouraging the high highly appreciated because. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:45:30.147Z] <Kerri_Lemoie> Great! Thanks, Xavi. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:45:31.088Z] <Transcriber> Xavi_Aracil_(1EdTech): Especially if we think about the student. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:45:34.106Z] <Transcriber> Xavi_Aracil_(1EdTech): In the same credentials. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:45:44.068Z] <Ildiko_Mazar> Wow, this is the first time I see my name transcribed as 'illegal' :-D | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:45:44.071Z] <Transcriber> Xavi_Aracil_(1EdTech): 2 different performance means that the amount of data they had to manage in their wallets will be insane. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:45:48.116Z] <Transcriber> Xavi_Aracil_(1EdTech): And and having. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:45:56.626Z] <Transcriber> Xavi_Aracil_(1EdTech): Say having 1. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:46:00.731Z] <Transcriber> Xavi_Aracil_(1EdTech): Several formats I think it will be helpful for them. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:46:25.494Z] <Anthony_F._Camilleri> I have an AOB Ildiko if the group has time | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:46:39.960Z] <Dmitri_Zagidulin> what is AOB? | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:47:57.561Z] <Simone_Ravaioli> https://oerdynamiccoalition.org/sites/default/files/documents/2024/09/Draft%20Dubai%20Declaration%20on%20OER%20%28ENG%29.pdf | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:48:02.941Z] <Anthony_F._Camilleri> https://github.com/Knowledge-Innovation-Centre/OER-Attribution | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:48:21.383Z] <Kerri_Lemoie> Excellent news! Open Wallet Forum at the UN is seeking a similar declaration at the World Economic Forum this January. | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:48:47.153Z] <Andres> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:48:47.451Z] <Kerri_Lemoie> Thanks for that news Anthony! | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:49:14.983Z] <Kerri_Lemoie> Thanks all!! | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:49:18.381Z] <Kaliya_Identity_Woman> present+ | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:49:20.413Z] <Phil_Barker> bye! | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:49:40.006Z] <Xavi_Aracil_(1EdTech)> Thank you | ||
| [2024-12-02T16:49:40.484Z] <Transcriber> Sheela_Kiiskila: Sorry I was trying to clap. |