Renaming the project to protect it legally (continued)

[Eloston]

This is a follow-up for #738. Please see #759 (comment) for the latest status of this issue.

[tangalbert919]

I have to assume the organization "ungoogled-software" will be renamed to "uncloudium" then, right? Or is that going to end up being "uncloudium-software"?

EDIT: I would just like to know because I am currently doing that first one right now.

[Eloston]

@tangalbert919 Yes, ungoogled-software will be renamed to uncloudium

[ghost]

I want to express my dissagreement even if no one else does (though 71% are against too! ???). I think poll wasn't set up well and unintentionally allowed to disadvantage other suggestions. I am askinking you to reconsider @Eloston and make a new voting poll rather than picking a name that has only 16% of votes. Please consider that 71% of people don't like it either. When more people voted for option other than uncloudium and detachium they should have been immediately replaced with other names with most votes in this case Pristine and Ferrochrome and so on if those would be again outvoted by "other", but those two were and still are there as only two options even thought 71% voted against them. I think problem was that many people probably voted for their own suggestion not clearly knowing all available, otherwise they might have voted differently. For example I voted for my own suggestion Chromite but than when I saw results I also voted for Pristine because I liked it and multiple options were allowed.
I don't blame you @Eloston - it is not an easy task but you should fix this problem since you decided to have us all vote otherwise you could just name it "Eloston" which I think is more suitable than uncloudium. As to a manipulation regarding name "Pristine" you could explain with details so we can recommend how to prevent that.
I don't think 16% is enough to choose a name. I though it wasn't imminently time sensitive issue and imagined voting will take longer and chosen name should have more than 50% of votes.
And I don't think uncloudium is very relevant since it's browser not cloud storage related service, even thought I know how it was meant - it looks like it is some kind of airgapped browser which by definition wouldn't work since internet is basically one big cloud. I wish we could discuss this more.
UPDATE: And lastly I have also few more original suggestions worth voting for.
UPDATE 2: I noticed that you wrote: "Based on the most popular result ....., I have decided upon the name uncloudium." However ironically most popular result was "OTHER" not uncloudium and roughly 18 days to vote is little bit too little.

[ghost]

Also there is a company called Cloudium Software https://cloudium.io and https://cloudium.net - so I am not sure if it won't cause any legal trouble.
UPDATE: Don't want to sound mean but I found other companies: https://www.cloudium.jp/ and https://www.cloudium.co.kr so I really don't understand how is this a good option from legal standpoint especially since there were more original ideas... it might as well have been simply called unchromium since just adding a prefix to already existing copyrighted name seems to suddenly not be bothering.

[emanruse]

Why not simply ask Google publicly if they have any issues with the name of your project and only if they do, then change it?

Simply: Because an answer to such question has no legal value. Only a license can protect the licensee. Also considering that Google's license already forbids using the name Google, that question actually has an answer. So your interpretation of "waste of time" is quite wrong because if Google decides to cause trouble the whole project may be destroyed and then the wasted time will be the whole time @Eloston and others have spend on the project. Of course wasted time would not be the only issue because there will surely be legal penalties.

So @yilmi I would recommend you familiarize yourself with legal matters a little bit before making grand conclusions about "killing the project" or "great waste of time".

[nikolowry]

@emanruse I'm curious how this would go if they ever did take legal action. "Google" is trademarked, but "google", "googled" and/or "googling" are listed as verbs on the following dictionaries:

• https://www.dictionary.com/browse/google
• https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/google
• https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/google
• https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/google

It might seem like semantics, but the casing and word type is what would be scrutinized.

---

I know I'm late to this renaming party, but I really loved the name "Unobtainium" that @thermatk settled on for a similiar project that wanted to unblob the Android version of Chromium -- https://github.com/thermatk/Unobtainium

[emanruse]

@nikolowry I am not curious about what legal action may result in. In fact I wish we never find out (otherwise I wouldn't suggest the renaming). Playing with letter case and decorations around the main word is not a game to play with one of the biggest companies in the world. That's why my suggestion was to name it Zero: - a word which is very unlikely to be reserved by anyone because it is a number - it reflects perfectly the zero unwanted connections essence of this project - it is also opposite to the megalomaniac googol/google - short and easy to remember But of course @Eloston as a creator of this project has the full right to name it to his liking. We must all respect that. My only concern with renaming is to protect this excellent work from potential attacks.

[emanruse]

I believe that if they want the project to stop using this name they will kindly ask for it

If Google could be so kind and if their words meant something there would be no need for ungoogling their products, no Dragonfly scandals or other things (PRISM, military, political etc). So if this should be truly ungoogled then it should not dependent on Google in any way, including on its benevolence.

[23rd]

What about youtube-dl project?
It has youtube in its name.
The project has been living for 11 years and so far the authors have not experienced any problems.

[23rd]

Well, at least we can cheat a little and use unggled-chromium for example. =)

[ducksys]

hello, i'm just a big nobody, well anyways, that name is horrible, please don't

[Gby56]

Hi @Eloston ,

I'd like to make the argument that, on top of this being a bit too hastily, it really isn't necessary, you don't have any commercial stakes in the project.
@23rd really pointed this out, youtube-dl has been around for litteraly AGES (from the Github API, since 2010-10-31....) so no point in worrying too much.

And my last point is that "ungoogled" has the merit of being explicit, instead of uncloudium, unobtainium etc...
I'd really suggest just finding another adjective/adverb like "untracked"-chromium, "pure"-chromium.

[emanruse]

I'd like to make the argument that, on top of this being a bit too hastily, it really isn't necessary, you don't have any commercial stakes in the project.

You mean apart of obviously opposing one of the biggest commercial names in the world?

@23rd really pointed this out, youtube-dl has been around for litteraly AGES (from the Github API, since 2010-10-31....) so no point in worrying too much.

The big question here is - are you going to protect @Eloston in court in an unfortunate case that is necessary. It is quite irresponsible to recommend being in a gray area just because there are many others in that area when a potential problem wouldn't affect you but someone else.

And my last point is that "ungoogled" has the merit of being explicit, instead of uncloudium, unobtainium etc... I'd really suggest just finding another adjective/adverb like "untracked"-chromium, "pure"-chromium.

Try selling a drink named "antiCocaCola" or a computer named "noIntelzInside" and see what happens (especially when many will like it).

[ghost]

Please setup a new non biased voting poll without those two default options that will also include all suggestions from the old poll. There must be more and better names than ucnloudium which you can like too @Eloston. Better compromise for everyone. Hope you reconsider.

[Eloston]

To make things clear, I don't really care what name we end up choosing for this project. All I really care about is dealing with the legal issue, and settling on something you guys can agree on.

At this time, I will suspend the rename until you guys can settle on a solution. If that doesn't happen, I will stick to uncloudium. (I believe we can all agree that uncloudium is legally safer than ungoogled-chromium, while still being a unique name.)

@nunbit The voting manipulation happened because there was no mechanism in place to prevent re-voting. The mechanisms provided are not good solutions either. A better poll would require authentication with GitHub, but there are no existing solutions for that.

[csagan5]

To make things clear, I don't really care what name we end up choosing for this project. All I really care about is dealing with the legal issue

If you do not really care then pick a random name. You can use one of plenty random name generators and chances are will not be trademarked.

and settling on something you guys can agree on.

This is a mistake. I suggest to pick a random name, you do not have to get consensus for this decision. The best would be getting advise from brand professionals (sorry, we random internet people are not good at choosing names).

[Erudition]

You have just stated in writing and publicly that the entire reason for the name of the project is to benefit from the trademark of someone else

Hmm, sounds like you need to read more of the previous messages in this thread. That's not what it means to "benefit from the trademark" (weird way to put it, but at least it's certainly more applicable than "promoting" it) and if "benefiting from the trademark" were the line-in-the-sand that makes it problematic, no one would be allow to use any trademark ever except in some useless unrelated way (and thus it would be useless to everyone). That's not where the line is, though. Check out the links I posted earlier, such as how Nominative Use works.

thus proving beyond all doubt that the name is used to create confusion in the namespace

...well that came out of nowhere -- no one here is arguing that the project's name is actually creating "confusion in the namespace", let alone that it's proven without a doubt. We certainly all at least agree that "ungoogled-chromium" is not a "confusing" name. The argument was simply about whether worrying about legal action due to the name was prudent and practical, or just an overly enthusiastic application of the widest interpretation of the law's potential limitations.

Oh, and

you have just stated [] the entire reason for the name of the project

huh? when? And more importantly, how could I possibly know "the entire reason for the name of the project"? I didn't name it! There's no reason to believe discoverability is the only reason it's a good name. I only pointed out that the descriptiveness is one such reason why the name is a good fit - the author may very well have had plenty of other reasons.

[csagan5]

I really loved the name "Unobtainium"

I find it a bit unpronounceable to be honest :)

I understand it might be inspired from the "metals" theme:
chrome -> bromite -> unobtainium

Feel free to pick something like that; we could even discuss about "renaming" ungoogled-chromium as Bromite, if somehow we could manage to merge the underlying projects as well (it's a separate and bigger topic to discuss).

[derlaft]

chlorine-unevilium?

[pirate486743186]

what about "unevil chromium" and "unevil software"? (serious proposal)

You know.... "don't do evil"? You throw their own words back at them. They don't want us to use the string "google"? Ok, the law is the law, just use the synonym "evil". ungoogle was such a great name, we are forced to change it to unevil. It's not our fault, we are innocent victims.

all google references could be changed to evil. For example instead of "qjz9zk".

an alternative could be "exorcised chromium".... or purified.... The description of the project could become "exorcise the ghost of hitler google out of chromium"

so.... the future logo/mascot of the project could be an angel... and eloston is the grand priest/ exorcist / shaman or what ever....

[jstkdng]

if we call google evil they would have grounds for a slander lawsuit I think.

[pirate486743186]

You are covered from that front. It's clearly a subjective opinion and rhetorical hyperbole.

not slander: Trump is evil.

slander: Hillary runs a pedophile ring with coded messages from her email server.

[pirate486743186]

beh, what about something like: "chromium privacy mod"

It's crystal clear what it is.

[ghost]

How about the name "Crowbar Browser"?

[webshaun]

What if you use the letter "G" in place of the brand name. "NoG" or "UnG"? That should avoid any potential legal issues, but I'm not a lawyer.

[Erudition]

an alternative could be "exorcised chromium".... or purified.... The description of the project could become "exorcise google out of chromium"

Sure, "purified-chromium" or "pure-chromium" are still pretty descriptive, yet opinionated, as it indicates that normal copies of Chrome/Chromium are not pure (kinda like "Pure AOSP" in the Android world - just vanilla android with no manufacturer-specific bloat or customization).

Still requires the prospective user to guess what the "impurities" are, though, if they don't know that Chromium is still Google-ified. But at least more descriptive than the other suggestions

[dreaddr]

How about calling it Purium Browser? Calling the project Ungoogled Chromium definitely would have some issues.

[ghost]

Here's the Idea:
There are health supplements called Chromium Polynicotinate, which are considered to be 100% pure. Ungoogled chromium is a purer fork of chromium.
So why not call it Polynium ?!

[Duoquadragesimal]

From Cornell Law:
To prevail on a claim of trademark infringement, a plaintiff must establish that it has a valid mark entitled to protection; and that the defendant used the same or a similar mark in commerce in connection with the sale or advertising of goods or services without the plaintiff's [consent](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/consent). The plaintiff must also show that defendant's use of the mark is likely to cause confusion as to the affiliation, connection or association of defendant with plaintiff, or as to the origin, sponsorship, or approval of defendant's goods, services or commercial activities by plaintiff. See [1-800 Contacts, Inc. v. WhenU.com, Inc., 414 F.3d 400 (2d Cir. 2005)](http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F3/414/400/622195/). Thus, "use," "in commerce," and "likelihood of confusion" are three distinct elements necessary to establish a trademark infringement claim.

I think there is no "likelihood of confusion" seeing as this is specifically UNgoogled, so obviously distanced from Google. It's kinda similar to Nintendont, a Gamecube emulator for the Wii. Knowing how Nintendo loves to sue, one would think they would sue them or at least get them taken down for use of the Nintendo trademark if they could, but that's been around for ages. Basically the same thing as this. In addition, I'm not sure if the "sale or advertising" part applies bc open source software and all that. I'm not a lawyer tho in any capacity but I don't think Google would really have much of a case if they were to sue for trademark infringement.

[Duoquadragesimal]

could probably get us for using the chromium name tho

[igonro]

Related comment.

[Futur3H4wk]

wow groovy(ish) new icon and no movement on a new name. I'm glad someone just pulled the triger on the icon, but a new name should have been done 2 years ago. consensus in nice but not alway practical. Someone just do it, I'm good with anything from "happy bunny flower" to "mother xxx xxxxx" just do it. (Xes are for the weak hearted)