Culture List Malakula #446
Comments
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I forgot to mention - |
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Having spoken to Russell about this yesterday, he is happy for me to make some decisions on the practicalities of implementing this into SoundComparisons.
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Timetable for the Cultural list project.
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Sounds good to me.
I'll make a "T/F" list for the items that I have photos and videos
for. Short answer: I have photos for something like 120 items. If you
want better coverage and uniformity is not an issue, I can do some
google image searches.
A.
…On 3/1/17, Paul Heggarty ***@***.***> wrote:
Having spoken to Russell about this yesterday, he is happy for me to make
some decisions on the practicalities of implementing this into
SoundComparisons.
* I can confirm that the culture list will **not** be merged into the same
site as the BV list. It will be a separate section of the site, initially I
presume just a separate entry in the drop-down studies list (the best way to
do this longer-term is to be determined with @Bibiko).
* The Culture list section will have its own 'word' list (meanings rather
than cognates)
preferably, not a new language list, but just a sub-set of the same language
varieties used for the BV list.
* For me, it's no problem if the speakers are different for the same
language variety, because there will be no page on which both the Basic and
Cultural lists are mixed up together. Far more important is not to start
getting conflicts and confusions between language varieties for the
different lists, and not to add new language varieties.
* What we could do, where a Culture list is available, is to include, in 1
Language table view only, a button to 'show also cultural vocabulary', as a
second table under the main one. This could be useful, for example, for
searching for more tokens of a given sound within a single language
variety.
* To include photos (and videos?), I think the best means would be one
parallel to the one that we already have for speaker photos assigned to
individual languages. That is, in the word selector column on the right, a
mini-thumbnail would appear whenever there is a photo for that term.
Clicking on it would show the full photo.
* To that end, @AvivaShimelman, could you let us know whether you have
photos for all items on the cultural list? They will also have to be given
appropriate filenames, but wait out on that until we work out the list of
exact names (no special characters) that we'll need.
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#446 (comment)
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All fine with me.
My part of the BV work is basically done. Transcriptions and
pre-edited recordings now just await TLC from LW.
I have three more lists that I want to add to fill out the Larevat
representation.
I want to do a full listen-through on the whole site, too, but that
won't take more than 3 days or so on my part.
I think the work on transcribing and pre-editing the CL files for me
is the same whether the site is ready to receive them or not. They can
sit indefinitely. Depending on how much participation you will need
from me when you do start trying to move that material onto the site,
I would be willing to just do it "pro bono" or to sign some kind of
quickie freelance contract.
A.
…On 3/1/17, Paul Heggarty ***@***.***> wrote:
**Timetable** for the Cultural list project.
Yes, preparation work, as far as possible, should be done while
@AvivaShimelman and @LauraWae are still working on the project.
However, adding a new list is not trivial at all in how much time it will
demand from @PaulHeggarty (a week or so) and @Bibiko (more). Neither of us
will get any such free time for many weeks, if not months. So this system
will not be up and running for months.
This also means that for @AvivaShimelman and @LauraWae too, more important
is to finish off all work on the BV list, and any other general corrections
and improvements to the site, as a higher priority than the Culture list.
I presume, by the way, by this stage, that we will not be getting a Bislama
translation done at any time remotely soon.
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What is TLC, please? And do you mean the transcriptions are done, and just need to be uploaded? Or that you will start on the transcriptions once you hear from Laura? The full listen-through sounds like a very good idea. In an ideal world, you would do this in 'editor mode' #425, but that won’t be working in time, I fear. Yes, you’re right: the work on transcribing and pre-editing the CL files for me is the same whether the site is ready to receive them or not. So please go ahead, but once the other things are done. The idea of a quickie freelance contract, as and when necessary, sounds good, too. |
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"TLC" = "tender loving care" (I never would have thought that one was
current only on this side of the pond!)
Transcriptions are done and uploaded. Laura is already chipping away
at them, I believe.
So, I'll understand "once other things are done" as once I've finished
the listen-through, too.
A.
…On 3/2/17, Paul Heggarty ***@***.***> wrote:
What is TLC, please? And do you mean the transcriptions are done, and just
need to be uploaded? Or that you will start on the transcriptions once you
hear from Laura?
The full listen-through sounds like a very good idea. In an ideal world,
you would do this in 'editor mode'
#425, but that won’t be
working in time, I fear.
Yes, you’re right: the work on transcribing and pre-editing the CL files
for me is the same whether the site is ready to receive them or not. So
please go ahead, but once the other things are done. The idea of a quickie
freelance contract, as and when necessary, sounds good, too.
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@LauraWae A. |
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Hi @AvivaShimelman and @PaulHeggarty I have created this Praat glossing-list for the basic vocabulary. I think it should work quite fine, and I am happy to hear feedback. Thanks! uncle_mother_older |
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Halo!
Thanks for being on this. Whether or not it will work depends on whether it
is an internal document (i.e., just for us to have columns to have
constants to map audio files to transcriptions) or a public one (i.e.,
visitors to the site are going to see these.
A.
…On Thu, Mar 30, 2017 at 10:39 AM, LauraWae ***@***.***> wrote:
Hi @AvivaShimelman <https://github.com/AvivaShimelman> and @PaulHeggarty
<https://github.com/PaulHeggarty>
I have created this Praat glossing-list for the basic vocabulary. I think
it should work quite fine, and I am happy to hear feedback. Thanks!
uncle_mother_older
uncel_father_older
aunt_father_younger
aunt_mother_younger
cousin_boy_boy_younger
cousin_boy_boy_older
cousin_girl_boy_older
cousin_boy_girl_younger
grandson_son
granddaughter_daughter
nephew_brother
nephew_sister
niece_brother
niece_sister
sister_boy_older
brother_girl_older
brother_boy_younger
father_in_law
mother_in_law
daughte_in_law
not_nameable
boy_firstborn
pregnant_bride
adopted_child
wife_sister_first
wife_sister_all
levirate_wife
respect
share
peace
discussion
consensus
collective_work
namangi
lowest_grade_name
chief
fight
resolve
fine
revenge
help
barter
gift
inherit
part_of_landowner
slave
village
gate
dance_ground
toilet_w
toilet_m
ritual_house_w
nakamal
post
horizontal_beam
rope_beams
natangora_bamboo
sunbeam_wall
hole_in_wall
instrument_laplap
stone_in_laplap
laplap_in_bamboo
leftovers
green_banana_feeling
soot
knife_clam_shell
cup_coconut
cut_before_cooking
elephant_taro
taro_swamp
wild_yam
wild_pig
island_cabage
banana
breadfruit
sugar_cane
sugar_cane_fiber
prepare_yam_garden
mound_yam
yam_sprouted
yam_to_harvest
first_yam
stake_yam
wilkin
garden_last_year
pig_eats_garden
drag_fire
stick_for_garden_digging
coconut_flower
coconut_before_food
coconut_skin
navara
coconut_dry
coconut_leaf_midrib
coconut_leaf_frond
coconut_milk
strong_bamboo
bamboo_ring
bamboo_length
bamboo_stand
tree_fern
hibiscus
natangora_bark
nangalat
bangan_tree
broken_wave
tidal_wave
swell
deep_sea
deepest_place
driftwood
wind_towards_sea
wind_towards_bush
cyclone
sun_shower
earthquake
moon_waning
moon_waxing
time_before_dawn
first_month
wet_season
coral
dead_coral
reef
where_water_enters_sea
star_constelation_to_plant_yam
place_of_thick_vines
indicate_trail_on_tree
horizon
fish_scale
flyingfox_black
flyingfox_white
spider_web
turtle_shell
hawk
owl
maggot
butterfly
octopus
fire_ant
shark
dolphin
firefly
gecko
pig_teeth_twice
pig_tooth_normal
pig_castrated
sow
tickle_pig_belly
hunt_birds_at_night
sling
arrow
arrow_three_points
arrow_miss_target
bow
bostring
catch_shrimp_with_hand
gather_seafood
bambbo_trap
axe_handle
girl_growing_breasts
girl_falling_breasts
girl_to_be_married
boy_before_nakamal
circumcision_ceremony
circumsize
boy_circumcized
shave
mourning_non_core
mourning_core
dead_ceremony
dead_ceremony_100_days
land_of_the_dead
wail
bed_for_dead_body
bury_dead
unnatural_death
cly_effigy
grass_skirt
nambas
belt_made_of_bark
belt
nose_ring
armband
tattoo
make_cord_by_rolling_fibers
pay_bride_price
reserve_a_bride
pullout_teeth_of_bride
dance_around_tamtam
womens_dance
ankelt_for_dancing
stick_beating_tamtam
slit_a_slit_gong
handdrum
conch
panpipe
mask
tall_mask
lisepsep
stone_dancingground
line_of_stones
stone_with_face
holy_place
weave
mat
mat_for_baby
basket
weave_bambu
finish_mat
join_two_mats
dye_leaves
print_mat
mat_from_coconut
leaves_from_coconut_mat
sanddrawing
erase_sanddrawin
cats_cradle
hand_pinching_bird_naming
paddle
figure_head
outrigger
wood_connecting_canoe_and_outrigger
canoe_hollow
sail
God
deads_person_spirit
spirit
devil
Creator
crazy
nightmare
happy
lazy
skull
nipple
thumb
lond_head
defecate
disembowel
albino
medicine
poison
doctor
black_magic
take_the_face_of_another_peson
sore_on_the_bottom
pick_lice
crush_lice
elephantitis
midwife
abortion
adultress
infertile
womb
menstruation
pregnant
give_birth
wean
love
teach
scold
bounce_a_baby
war
warrior
deadly_part_of_head
carry_on_back
carry_between_two_people
show_teeth
sit_to_keep_warm
sit_legs_outstretched
reach_hill
walking_stick
walk_about_at_night
hit_shell
taboos_cross
shout_out_in_the_bush
wooden_headrest
day_after_tomorrow
posion_fish_in_pool
grate
forget
rollers_for_canoe
bambu_to_knock
its_ok
sorry
kava_tray
kava
broom
pantanas
lie
cluck_chicks
pick_all_fruit
limp
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Hi, |
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It'll be fine.
A
…On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 6:22 AM, LauraWae ***@***.***> wrote:
Hi,
Thanks for replying so soon. This is only internal, for tagging in Praat
(remember the words we filled in between boundaries? They can't have
special characters and should be as simple and as specific as possible at
the same time).
All the best,
Laura
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@PaulHeggarty How do you want to deal with the metadata for the CL recordings? Do you want me to make a new "For pasting" sheet based on the one we currently use for the BV lists? A. |
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@LauraWae Please give me a heads-up when you want to start in on the CLs. I'm kind of piling them up here until we figure out exactly how we want to organize ourselves. A. |
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@AvivaShimelman Aren’t the languages for the culture list just a subset of those we already have for the basic vocabulary list? We only need additions to the for pasting sheet if you want to add wholly new languages. |
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As for the timing on the CLs, bear in mind that I have no time before I start my parental leave to prepare the new culture list for the website. So all that Laura can do until the end of her contract at the end of April is to mark up the lists. There'll be no sound file extraction or uploading for now, until I can get back to this in the autumn, and until we have a new Sound Comparisons administrator to take over from Laura. We just need to leave the recordings and textgrids in the cleanest possible state so that the extraction and uploading can be completed later by somebody new to the process. |
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Yes, I think that was the way we left it, which works for me.
…On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 7:39 AM, Paul Heggarty ***@***.***> wrote:
As for the timing on the CLs, bear in mind that I have no time before I
start my parental leave to prepare the new culture list for the website. So
all that Laura can do until the end of her contract at the end of April is
to mark up the lists. There'll be no sound file extraction or uploading for
now, until I can get back to this in the autumn, and until we have a new
Sound Comparisons administrator to take over from Laura. We just need to
leave the recordings and textgrids in the cleanest possible state so that
the extraction and uploading can be completed later by somebody new to the
process.
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Right. We have CLs for all and only those languages for which we have BV
lists.
Still, I'll make up some kind of informal reference sheet for working
purposes, so that Laura -- or whoever -- can match file names to languages
(transparent, in any case) and I can link photos or any auxiliary material.
A.
…On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 7:25 AM, Paul Heggarty ***@***.***> wrote:
@AvivaShimelman <https://github.com/AvivaShimelman> Aren’t the languages
for the culture list just a subset of those we already have for the basic
vocabulary list? We only need additions to the for pasting sheet if you
want to add wholly new languages.
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Better would be already to change all the file names to the SndComp filenames. (But just in case, first make a backup copy of the file with its original name.) Then there is no more renaming for to be done by anyone, especially people new to the project who might well be lost in all the filenames! |
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We still need some clarifications from @AvivaShimelman on points where we cannot clearly understand what is meant in some of your notes:
Do you mean 'languages' in the sense you often use it in, i.e. not as any language variety (including your 'dialect') the sens . Please put numbers on this, so it's clearer. Am I correct in paraphrasing this as: We do not have CLs for all of the full 135 varieties for which we have BV lists. Rather, we only have CLs for about 40 of those 135 varieties, only for one variety ('dialect') of each of the 40 fully-fledged languages. In other words, we have a CL only for one representative 'dialect' (level 6) of each 'language' (level 5). |
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Trying to understand what you want us to do with the Should we: Since (if we understand correctly) these are the same speaker, albeit the second time with two others also commenting), I can’t see why we should do (a), but from how you phrased it ("supplement") it is not clear whether you mean (a) or (b). |
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Please also advise us on what we are to do with the other cases where we have a 1 and a 2 recording and the rest of the variety name is identical. |
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Hi also from my part :) ownCloud\SndComp\Malakula\2 - LW DA - To Mark up in PRAAT. Thanks! |
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Worry: lect/speaker distinction will be lost. Any future analysis will have
to consider the possibility that many lects -- the "depopulated" one in
particular -- are aggregates in some sense of an albeit constrained range
of idiolects. In particular the seeming free alternation between voiced and
unvoiced pairs and between adjacent places of articulation is going to be
intersting/challenging. Again, you know your system, analytical
requirements, and so on. I'll just change file names and make copies.
A>
…On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 2:40 AM, Paul Heggarty ***@***.***> wrote:
Better would be already to change all the file names to the SndComp
filenames. (But just in case, first make a backup copy of the file with its
original name.) Then there is no more renaming for to be done by anyone,
especially people new to the project who might well be lost in all the
filenames!
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When? By doing what? |
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I don’t think ideolects is a reasonable, practical objective for Sound Comparisons, though. |
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You understood correctly.
Level 5. We have one example for every level 5 lect agglomeration.
Potentially two for Nah/x'ai.
A.
…On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 8:23 AM, Paul Heggarty ***@***.***> wrote:
We still need some clarifications from @AvivaShimelman
<https://github.com/AvivaShimelman> on points where we cannot clearly
understand what is meant in some of your notes:
"We have CLs for all and only those languages for which we have BV lists."
Do you mean 'languages' in the sense you often use it in, i.e. not as any
language variety (including your 'dialect') the sens . Please put numbers
on this, so it's clearer. Am I correct in paraphrasing this as:
We do *not* have CLs for all of the full 135 varieties for which we have
BV lists. Rather, we only have CLs for about 40 of those 135 varieties,
only for one variety ('dialect') of each of the 40 fully-fledged languages.
In other words, we have a CL only for one representative 'dialect' (level
6) of each 'language' (level 5).
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Bottom line: I want (2) treated as as a revision to (1). I defer to
administrative ease, though, as both strategies are defensible.
A.
…On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 8:26 AM, Paul Heggarty ***@***.***> wrote:
Trying to understand what you want us to do with the Tape: Tautu and Tape:
Tautu 2 recordings.
Should we:
(a) Keep these as two separate varieties on the database, distinguished
only as 1 and 2.
(b) Merge these recordings into a single variety.
Since (if we understand correctly) these are the same speaker, albeit the
second time with two others also commenting), I can’t see why we should do
(a), but from how you phrased it ("supplement") it is not clear whether you
mean (a) or (b).
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I don't think I was opaque about this one. Laura got it right from the
get-go. All files (and these are the ones I uploaded first two months ago)
with the same file numbers as existing recordings on the site modified with
an "R" in the number and a "revised" in the title are meant as revisions to
existing recordings where formerly inflected items have been swapped out
for uninflected counterparts. The transcriptions for these (and only these)
were uploaded to my trasncriptions file on 16/2; they are separated from
all other transcription in the complete list uploaded 02/3:
*15-10-R Avava Tisvel Revised*
*15-35-R Tape_Tautu_Revised*
*150-052-R Pangkumu Datisman Revised*
*160-012Wala Worprev*
*160044-R Taute Alpalak Revised*
*160-080-R PortSandwich Marivar Revised*
*162-087-R Navwien Mbonvor Revised*
A.
…On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Paul Heggarty ***@***.***> wrote:
Please also advise us on what we are to do with the other cases where we
have a 1 and a 2 recording and the rest of the variety name is identical.
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Yuppee! Let's start with that first one: Najit as a test case and see what
problems may surface.
A.
…On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 8:32 AM, LauraWae ***@***.***> wrote:
Hi also from my part :)
@AvivaShimelman <https://github.com/AvivaShimelman> This is my hands-up
to start on the Cultural List. Please start uploading the files to
*ownCloud\SndComp\Malakula\2 - LW DA - To Mark up in PRAAT*.
Thanks!
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I'm obviously being obtuse on this one. As I understand it, you want me to
not create any new metadata entry anywhere for a CL list from the "same
lect" for which we already have a BV list. So, for example, if I have a
Novol-Dixon Reef BV and I made a Novol-Dixon Reef CL I just maybe tag "CL"
on an otherwise identical file name. Can do.
Possible problems, though:
The CLs are the product of committees (if getting a unique referent for
"stone" is hard, try "wail for the dead," "community work day," and
"abortion," to name a few), and, of necessity, committees of people from
different "dialects," so, although pronunciation will necessarily be that
of a single speaker (lect), there's something a bit "higher order" going
on. Then there is just the issue of pictures.
Again, sorry for being obtuse. All of this can be left with some
transparent labeling and an unofficial metadata sheet until there is time
to deal with it ... if there is, indeed, anything to deal with.
A.
…On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Paul Heggarty ***@***.***> wrote:
Worry: lect/speaker distinction will be lost.
When? By doing what?
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Obviously yes, you'll need to add a tag like _CL (for now), but that's not what I mean by renaming. What I mean is changing file names from your type to the Sound Comparisons type, for example .…
Laura will do all this, in any case. You can just leave your original file names as you had them, plus _CL |
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@LauraWae Good luck! A. |
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@LauraWae |
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@LauraWae |
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Hi, SndComp\Malakula\Culture List\02 Tagged Files and Textgrids. You will notice that I have split the Malakula folder into two main subfolders - one for the BV, and the other for CL. With those two files I have worked with by now there was nothing extraordinary happening. I used your transcriptions to check the spellings. Occasionally, I would delete transcriptions where there was no sound in the pre-selected recording. That's all. As you have asked in #460, this is my answer: It takes me about 40 minutes to tag a recording. |
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Wow, that really isn't a long time at all. For a couple of them, I'll put
editing notes when I upload. That usually just means, like with the BVs,
that the recording has more "interference" than I am happy with, so that I
will have already pushed the noise reduction and the only solution is just
to be sure to cut them at the very edges. A.
…On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 9:20 AM, LauraWae ***@***.***> wrote:
Hi,
Thanks for the sheets and also for the aclarations to the gloss list from
two weeks ago. I have finished the first two CL-recordings now. This means
that I have tagged them with Praat. You can have a look at them on
SndComp\Malakula\Culture List\02 Tagged Files and Textgrids.
You will notice that I have split the Malakula folder into two main
subfolders - one for the BV, and the other for CL.
With those two files I have worked with by now there was nothing
extraordinary happening. I used your transcriptions to check the spellings.
Occasionally, I would delete transcriptions where there was no sound in the
pre-selected recording. That's all.
As you have asked in #460
<#460>, this is my
answer: It takes me about 40 minutes to tagg a recording.
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Aviva Shimelman, PhD
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Hi on day # 3. Two things: I have just finished And, secondly: It looks like the recording Thanks a lot in advance. |
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Additionally: Could please also indicate which of those labels
is wlc_1620046-47 Siviti Batarxopu It's somehow not clear to me and I am very grateful for you assistance. Thanks. |
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@LauraWae |
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@LauraWae |
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@LauraWae |
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@LauraWae |
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@LauraWae |
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Aviva's comments from 23th and 24th of April in #458 @LauraWae A. @LauraWae |
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@LauraWae Right now we have the Limap dialect on our list. I was just reviewing it and I realized that I only recorded those items where Limap differed at all from the other dialect I recorded, Mindu. It was Mindu that I had recorded all completely. With Limap, we had reviewed the whole set and then, when it came time to record, the the man -- who was quite elderly -- just started to get very tired, so I picked out those where the two dialects different in any regard -- maybe a quarter. That said, It's already pre-edited and transcribed, so there's no reason not to use it, I don't think. |
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@LauraWae |
We now have a second list of items for the Malakula recordings. The list is by design unique to Malakula, with items like 'edible flesh of a sprouted coconut' 'tickle the belly of pig in a fashion that makes it lie down and sleep', 'hole in a woven bamboo wall through which the sun shines inside,' 'spit-out fiber of sugarcane', and 'take the face of a man whom you have killed' (all elicit simple terms), along with the slightly more universal 'father-in-law', 'breadfruit' and 'wean'. List attached. It includes 300 items, although I am recommending that we use only a subset (decision yet to come from Russell on this). In any case, the work of marking it up is the same. Items are numbered, but that can be ignored. Renumbering wouldn't throw any wrenches in it for me. Elicitation is always in the order listed.
A second issue is that coverage is a bit different. We have all the major speech varieties (45), but each is represented, for now, with a single recording. In the modal case, the speaker has also made a BV (basic vocabulary) list, but that is just because I preferred to work with "known entities" in recording this one. I privileged those speakers from the first round who offered the clearest "central representations" of languages, and not, as I had done generally with the BV recordings, the oldest speakers of marginal varieties. So tagging the new items on to existing recordings is not really an option. Either the first set of items will come up empty with the culture list or the second will come up empty for the BV list. Maybe a second map?
Malakula "culture list" items 24 02 2017.xlsx
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