---
bibtex: @article{saunders2012defining,
title={Defining the demos},
author={Saunders, Ben},
journal={Politics, Philosophy \& Economics},
volume={11},
number={3},
pages={280--301},
year={2012},
publisher={SAGE Publications}
}
---
Ben Saunders 2012
Saunders defines the boundary problem as the issue of who is to be included concerns both spatial outsiders and internal exclusions. p295
He criticizes the ‘all-affected principle’ and the claim that we must enfranchise almost everyone in almost every decision.
Saunders' key claims are: (p281)
- that we should focus on rights rather than mere interests,
- that rights are better respected by limiting the power of groups to infringe them, rather than by requiring them to include or enfranchise the rights-holders
His conclusion is that the boundary problem can be solved by accepting an arbitrary demos but limiting their scope by preventing negative externalities according to some non-democratic moral principle.
This is because "individuals may be understood as waiving certain rights where they are part of a democratic group, thus explaining why groups are able to affect their members in ways that they cannot legitimately affect outsiders." p281
History: Carl Cohen(1971:41–54), JackLively(1975:10–12), Frederick G. Whelan (1983), Giovanni Sartori (1987: 21–5), and Robert A. Dahl (1989: 119–31, 1990: 45–51). Abizadeh (2008) Arrhenius (2007) and Goodin (2007).
"Until we know the relevant group of decision-makers, it seems that there is no prospect of a genuinely democratic decision." p281
"There is no need for a decision-making group to include all who are affected by a decision." p281
"It is frequently claimed that (1) it is unjustifiable for one group to impose costs on outsiders unilaterally, so (2) those outsiders ought to be included in the decision-making process. I will argue that, while the first claim is true, the second does not follow and ought to be rejected." (p282)
All Affected Principle: "I believe it is most charitably interpreted as the claim that all those whose interests are affected ought to be enfranchised." p283
Over inclusiveness is a problem because:
- unaffected votes are not likely to vote randomly. Problems like racism abound. p284
- it suggests enfranchising everyone inc children & the insane
- those unaffected can't be trusted to abstain when they should
- "dilutes the power of the locals to govern their own lives" p286
"Moral agents are actors, capable of deliberate, reasoned choice, and bound by moral requirements. Moral patients, conversely, are simply those beings deserving of moral consideration. On most views, all moral agents are also moral patients, but the reverse does not hold." p286
"Rule in the interests of the people (or affected patients) is not democracy, but guardianship. Democracy is essentially a matter of rule by the people, that is, a matter of their agency" p287
"Democracy is not simply about the equal satisfaction of different parties’ interests, but about giving people equal (and positive) inputs into what the decisions are. This is why choosing a course of action by lottery, though it shows equal respect for all people’s interests, is not democratic (see Estlund, 2008: 65–84; Goodin, 2004: 99)." p288
"It seems that democracy is, in some sense, a matter of collective agency. " p288
"Democracy is based on respecting people as agents, rather than merely as patients." p288
"All might subscribe to the democratic process because it gives weight to their preferences. They may lose on any given decision, but at least they have a chance of winning next time." p289
"Democratic arrangements are one form of social interaction that impose particular costs on particular agents on particular occasions, but can be justified because in general they are beneficial to all." p289
"Agents normally face limits on what they can permissibly do. I cannot simply push past you because I am in a rush, for example. Similar limits apply also to collective agents." p289 - this strikes me as a completely incorrect assumption. What can't I push past you, what makes it wrong?
The imposition of costs to insiders is acceptable because they gain 'net benefits in the long term'. This is not true of outsiders. p290
"Thus, the decision-making power of the demos ought to be limited to distributing benefits and burdens internally and not to affecting outsiders (negatively, at least)." p290
"The decisional power of a group need not, therefore, be limited to what does not affect outsiders, but only to what does not harm outsiders." p290
"we need not enfranchise outsiders in a decision simply because we could benefit them" p290
"there are some things that I have the right to do, even if others are adversely affected by my decision" such as business competition. p291
Acknowledges his major problem - "Of course, in practice we will need mechanisms to determine what rights people have. These will presumably be undemocratic, because we cannot have a democratic process without a prior determination of who should be included in that process, which merely opens a regress." p291
Compensation may be a viable alternative to inclusion or enfranchisement "If our action infringes on the domain of others’ rights, then we need to obtain their consent. Note that this need not take the form of including them in our democratic procedure." 292
"Simply including someone in a democratic process is not itself sufficient to allow the overriding of their rights." - Very good point p293
"Including someone in the process of decision-making does not necessarily entitle us to override their rights." p293
"Thus, it seems (1) that groups have the right to act as their members see fit, provided that they do not violate the rights of any outsiders, regardless of whose interests may be affected, and (2) that groups ought to be prohibited from violating rights without permission." p293
"If democracy requires all members of the community to be willing to bear short-term losses for the benefit of others, democratic arrangements are likely to function more smoothly where the people are united by a sense of solidarity." p294