[Arcs] Secure Timing

[ledergamesmatt]

A few Vox cards

Planet-Eater Loose
Council Intrigue
Armistice

their When Secured effects refers to the agents on it. This implies the When Secured effect must be resolved before agents are returned/captured. This contradicts with base rule for Secure action which sequences them the other way. Which way is correct?

[jdyearsley]

I'm not sure this problem, if it is one, is solvable without extreme rewrites and issues. I would want a case where this looseness in order actually causes a problem before I targeted a solution. Planet-Eater Loose also, for example, is a case where the When Secured effect specifies a case where the card remains in the Court, while the base rule for Secure says to take the card.

Broadly, the When Secured action can modify the base Secure logic. Technically, it makes the most sense to structure the Secure order as:

1. Resolve its When Secured action, if any.
2. Take the card (unless overridden).
3. Return/capture agents as necessary (unless overridden).
4. Refill the Court.

However, this really buries the lede on the Secure action and I would never want to write it this way in the core rules for the sake of a few cases in the campaign. Is there evidence of wide-scale confusion on this point, or is this confected?

[ledergamesmatt]

I don't believe there were any actual issues. This was just turmoilbyrd digging deep. But I would note that it's just kind of related to these attachment cards being looked at more closely (Armistice, etc)

I'll poke around a bit more and check in with turmoilbyrd

[ledergamesmatt]

from turmilbyrd:

i think one confusion this question leads to is for Dealmaker + Diplomatic Fiasco. Are agents returned before or after counting agents in supply for its When Secured effect

[jdyearsley]

For Diplomatic Fiasco, the agents should be returned first—which favors the current logic order. (So Dealmakers would also return the captured agents first.)

At this point, I'm content just to let the loose, clashing order of those few Vox cards stand above and clarify that point for Diplomatic Fiasco. If some real issues come up, we can revisit.

[jdyearsley]

That being said, I think it's fine to clarify the Diplomatic Fiasco order, since that could really affect things. Feel free to put in an FAQ.

[ledergamesmatt]

Added to faq240820 branch